Seperation of school and church

[ender1626]

So we all know about the seperation of church and state, but how about the no "in God we trust" in the pledge ofallegience? I suppose its a little easier to explaine this one, due to the dont influence my kids' religion. As true as that is there have been parents like that for ever, but now we have to change it. This seems to fall hand-in-hand with the church and state issue. They changed the pledge to please the parents so they dont get mad at the state.

[JsWoman]

That does seem to be almost one and the same issue. But with all the immigrants still coming into the country, and more and more of them not beig Christians, its understandable, to an extent, that the government would finally do something about that phrase in the pledge, even if I don't agree with it, at all.

[ender1626]

I dont think it was the imigrants that were wanting the pledge changed. Last i heard there was an athiest wanting the pledge changed. There is a post in the oracle talking about religion. I know someone said they were an athiest, but not an active one. This is an example of an active athiest. People get mad when christians "push" there beliefes on people, but no one seems to care when this athiest pushes something that has been in the pledge for lifetimes out with his beliefes.

[Arkacia]

I read on another site that the "under god" line was inserted into the pledge during the 50s as a sort of counter to the Soviet Union's official atheisism during the cold war (or was that the "in god we trust" on the money, no I'm pretty sure it was the pledge) and was never a true part of the pledge as it was originally written.

I do understand why non-Christians would not want to say that line and as the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation, it makes sense to take it out of the pledge. Religion is a private thing and really doesn't belong in the public sphere. Including government run institutions such as schools.

[ender1626]

Good point Arkica I was just saying why do people get so mad if a christian talks to they about god but not when a atheist talks to they about there being no god. Perhaps its because they think the christians are trying to convert them?

[Arkacia]

In some cases Christians are trying to convert them :).

I'm an atheist but don't push it on others, but I also don't like religion pushed on me. There are a small number of extreme atheists just as there are a small number of extreme fundamentalist church goers. Don't forget either that some Christians do believe that the bible orders them to convert non-believers to the church and they will try to follow that order. If I ever get the urge to turn to Christianity (or any other religion) I can search it out myself. Being told by fundies that I'm an immoral, godless heathen bound for hell (which makes me laugh because I don't believe hell exists) gets annoying to the extreme.

I do think religion needs to be taken out of all places it doesn't belong, especially government run institutions. If people want religion they can find it in their church community, their own homes or church run institutions such as catholic schools.

[ender1626]

I cant argue with that, my step-father is one of those christians that like to try and convert people. I agree with you totally that they shouldnt be forced on anyone espically our childeren. They are the most infulentual after all. One question however is how do we know where religion belongs and doesnt belong. As far as i can see that is left up to any who choose the voice there opinion.

[Arkacia]

One question however is how do we know where religion belongs and doesnt belong. As far as i can see that is left up to any who choose the voice there opinion.

In my opinion, religion is a private thing and belongs in a persons private, not public life. Unless of course they are someone like the Pope who is a public figure.

Basically in nations where church and state are seperate, then religion shouldn't be a consideration in government or institutions run by the government such as the courts, schools, hospitals ect.

Churches themselves can, and of course have, set up their own schools, hospitals ect and religion is fine as a part of them. The people using those facilities know who owns and runs them and what to expect.

As an atheist, I wouldn't want to go into a public hospital and have religion shoved on me while there. I was very glad the state schools I went to didn't do it either, except for one religion day a year, and then it was optional if students attended. I would spend the day in the library with the dozen or so other atheist students.

The best way to make everyone happy, in my mind, is for the atheists to believe what they want, but not push it onto others and for the religious to believe what they want and not push it onto others. Keep whatever your beliefs are private and personal.

[bandgeek]

I am a christian and I do ask people how their relationship with God is. However, if they tell me that they do not like to talk about the subject of God then I end the conversation. I feel that if you are a true christian you should try to help them and by helping I mean to not push them. I hate being pushed into things so I don't exactly feel the need to do it to others. Therefore, I will not ask Arkacia the question I ask most people. I figure that if you truly want to believe in God you have to do it by yourself.

Anyways... I agree but disagree on the pledge issue. I agree that it should be taken out because it was not an official government thing until the 50's. I do not agree because the nation is put "under God" plus, in our school, when kids do not want to say the pledge then they just come in, sit down, and sleep until class starts.

[Caladhiel]

So we all know about the seperation of church and state, but how about the no "in God we trust" in the pledge ofallegience? I suppose its a little easier to explaine this one, due to the dont influence my kids' religion. As true as that is there have been parents like that for ever, but now we have to change it. This seems to fall hand-in-hand with the church and state issue. They changed the pledge to please the parents so they dont get mad at the state.

people seemed to think it's fine to keep the "under god" in because you don't have to say the Pledge, technically you don't even have to stand up for it (my teacher wants us to at least stand out of respect but he doesn't make us say it) but i think that's just an excuse for people who want to say their country is under "god". me and my friends have a simple solution: we made up versions of our own.